Damn! I remember going to a birthday party with a bunch of young gay men. I wasn't out, so they left me alone. But what they said to and about each other was genius-level shade. I couldn't wait to get outa there. My fear and discomfort hasn't dissipated. But after reading your essay, I now have compassion. Thank you.
That makes sense. Being around that level of shade can feel impressive for about ten seconds, then unsafe pretty quickly. Compassion helps, and I think your discomfort was giving you useful information too.
Ok. I'll bite. What info was my discomfort giving me? All I can think of is: if I'm gay, this is not a community I want to be part of, so I'll 'pass'. Or was it something else?
Possibly something like: “this room isn’t safe for me yet.” Which is different from “gay community equals this.” One ugly room can feel like evidence when you’re already uncomfortable. I’d trust the discomfort, and I’d be careful not to let that one version of gay social life become the whole map.
You are perceptive: that room isn’t safe, and that version is not the whole map. The gay community is so small, it is unfortunate that the social bullying/grindr part makes up so much of the map. The tiny part that is left requires a great deal of persistence, courage, energy, extroversion and confidence to travel to. You are a doughty expedition leader. Your essay encourages the troops to do better. I admire you.
As I read this I kept thinking of a couple friends who do this sort of thing regularly. Of course, it often happens when the person they are talking about is not around. Then, one of THEM is not around and they get talked about. For those of us over the age of 50 it is tiresome to experience. I try to avoid such people and situations if I can but there's that history we share so we sometimes we remain part of the conversation even though we know its wrong and caddy.
It’s like a revolving-door, and it can be especially tiring. You also start to realise nobody is safe in the room, they’re just safe until they leave it. And yes, the shared history makes it harder to step away, so sometimes the best you can do is participate less and notice what it costs you.
That makes complete sense. Some gay spaces can be exhausting when the social rules are built around judgement. Stepping away from that is a valid choice.
Those who have such a low image of themselves don't have it in themselves to realize it, or are too insecure to accept that they need to work on it, are the ones misdirecting their emotions.
I've never really had a social circle with gay men but I have experienced what you talked about here in my own family.
People putting on a face to talk crap about someone else not in the room so they could feel closer, and when they leave each other, do the same thing about each other.
I hate that being earnest and honest is not the norm.
Yes, closeness built around talking about whoever isn’t in the room can feel very familiar in families too. I think you’re right that self-image is a huge part of it. When people don’t know how to sit with what they feel about themselves, someone else becomes the easier target.
Gino, What an interesting take on hostilities kept in the group. As I read the first part, I thought of how often someone is anti-gay (governmental officials, church, etc) or kills a gay or is a bully in school ... and the reason is because they themselves are so often gay and had nowhere to direct their anger and hostilities. Not a good situation. Fondly, Michael
That’s a real part of it, Michael. When someone has nowhere safe to put what they hate in themselves, it often comes out sideways at the people who make that truth harder to avoid. It never excuses the harm, and it does help explain why some of the worst policing comes from inside the wound.
Yes, women can absolutely do this too. In gay male spaces, the comparison often gets tied to status, desirability, and safety, which gives it a particular edge.
I like the playground comparison. Sometimes it really is just gossip dressed up as wit. I also tend to keep some distance from people who make that their main way of relating.
Damn! I remember going to a birthday party with a bunch of young gay men. I wasn't out, so they left me alone. But what they said to and about each other was genius-level shade. I couldn't wait to get outa there. My fear and discomfort hasn't dissipated. But after reading your essay, I now have compassion. Thank you.
That makes sense. Being around that level of shade can feel impressive for about ten seconds, then unsafe pretty quickly. Compassion helps, and I think your discomfort was giving you useful information too.
Ok. I'll bite. What info was my discomfort giving me? All I can think of is: if I'm gay, this is not a community I want to be part of, so I'll 'pass'. Or was it something else?
Possibly something like: “this room isn’t safe for me yet.” Which is different from “gay community equals this.” One ugly room can feel like evidence when you’re already uncomfortable. I’d trust the discomfort, and I’d be careful not to let that one version of gay social life become the whole map.
You are perceptive: that room isn’t safe, and that version is not the whole map. The gay community is so small, it is unfortunate that the social bullying/grindr part makes up so much of the map. The tiny part that is left requires a great deal of persistence, courage, energy, extroversion and confidence to travel to. You are a doughty expedition leader. Your essay encourages the troops to do better. I admire you.
I’m not sure about doughty, but I do like expeditions 😃
As I read this I kept thinking of a couple friends who do this sort of thing regularly. Of course, it often happens when the person they are talking about is not around. Then, one of THEM is not around and they get talked about. For those of us over the age of 50 it is tiresome to experience. I try to avoid such people and situations if I can but there's that history we share so we sometimes we remain part of the conversation even though we know its wrong and caddy.
It’s like a revolving-door, and it can be especially tiring. You also start to realise nobody is safe in the room, they’re just safe until they leave it. And yes, the shared history makes it harder to step away, so sometimes the best you can do is participate less and notice what it costs you.
This is exactly why my husband and I did not participate in the "gay community." And exactly why we don't bother now.
It's nice to read a piece that unpacks the damage and the impact. 💕
That makes complete sense. Some gay spaces can be exhausting when the social rules are built around judgement. Stepping away from that is a valid choice.
I believe it all comes down to the self-image.
Those who have such a low image of themselves don't have it in themselves to realize it, or are too insecure to accept that they need to work on it, are the ones misdirecting their emotions.
I've never really had a social circle with gay men but I have experienced what you talked about here in my own family.
People putting on a face to talk crap about someone else not in the room so they could feel closer, and when they leave each other, do the same thing about each other.
I hate that being earnest and honest is not the norm.
This was a wonderful read, Gino. ❤️
Yes, closeness built around talking about whoever isn’t in the room can feel very familiar in families too. I think you’re right that self-image is a huge part of it. When people don’t know how to sit with what they feel about themselves, someone else becomes the easier target.
Gino, What an interesting take on hostilities kept in the group. As I read the first part, I thought of how often someone is anti-gay (governmental officials, church, etc) or kills a gay or is a bully in school ... and the reason is because they themselves are so often gay and had nowhere to direct their anger and hostilities. Not a good situation. Fondly, Michael
That’s a real part of it, Michael. When someone has nowhere safe to put what they hate in themselves, it often comes out sideways at the people who make that truth harder to avoid. It never excuses the harm, and it does help explain why some of the worst policing comes from inside the wound.
I try to catch myself from engaging in catty behavior, and won’t be friends with gays who are nothing but…
That feels like the right boundary. A bit of cattiness can be funny, and when it becomes someone’s whole personality, it gets draining fast.
Women do it, too. To those they like and don't like. With women, though, it's less about hierarchy and more about "does she look better than I do".
Yes, women can absolutely do this too. In gay male spaces, the comparison often gets tied to status, desirability, and safety, which gives it a particular edge.
This is wonderful and so on point. 100%
Thank you. That means a lot. These wounds can be oddly hard to describe until someone puts enough of the shape around them.
It almost seems like a revised version of playground bullying except the target is not present. Maybe it's just gossip. Unhelpful, unkind.
I tend to avoid people like that.
I like the playground comparison. Sometimes it really is just gossip dressed up as wit. I also tend to keep some distance from people who make that their main way of relating.